tlcorbinWBC . . . Drink the Kool - Aid!
April 12th 2008 15:12
Category: The Wood Shed
Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) , "Why aren't you a cult?" Is the subject of a recent email that I sent to those people, and why wouldn't I?
The members of WBC, as a group, appear to be JJ's (Jim Jones) brand, Temple of Doom flavored, Kool-Aid drinkers. How are they different?
I sent them a list of my blog sites and the following note:
Rather than use my words to describe them, wikipedia has a few already:
"The Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is a hate group headed by Fred Phelps and based in Topeka, Kansas, United States.
The church runs numerous websites such as GodHatesFags.com, GodHatesAmerica.com and others expressing condemnation of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people (LGBT), Roman Catholics, Muslims and Jews, as well as populations it believes are supporting the aforementioned groups, including Swedes, Canadians, Irish, British, Mexicans and Americans.
The organization is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League, and is classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Although well-known in LGBT communities for picketing gay pride events and funerals, the group achieved national notoriety for picketing funeral processions for soldiers killed in action during the Iraq War.
While its members identify themselves as Baptists, the church is an independent church not affiliated with any known Baptist conventions or associations. The church describes itself as following Primitive Baptist and Calvinist principles, though mainstream Primitive Baptists condemn Westboro Baptist Church and Phelps. Its first public service was held on the afternoon of Sunday, November 27, 1955.
The church bases its work around the belief expressed by its best known slogan and the address of its primary website, "God hates fags," and expresses the idea that nearly every tragedy in the world is linked to homosexuality – specifically society's increasing tolerance and acceptance of the so-called "Homosexual Agenda." The group maintains that God hates homosexuals above all other kinds of "sinners" and that homosexuality should be a capital crime."
Here's a link to contact them and leave a message:
WBC Contact Us
Here are some links to their own documents:
Upcoming Picket Schedules: Picketing
Picket Plans for John Roberts: Robert's Picketing
Picket Plans for the Pope: Papal picketing
And the always popular: God Hates Fags
So, there you have it, hate speech personified.
What should be done?
Raven
I sent them a list of my blog sites and the following note:
I am going to do what I can to raise public awareness about your misguided fringe antics. Collectively, you're ill educated and largely ignorant about the word of God; it is obvious to me that the only god you worship is the petty little god whose face you view in your mirror(s) and that makes you as dangerous as OBL.
I'd be delighted to hear from your members, and not a designated spiel meister.
I'd be delighted to hear from your members, and not a designated spiel meister.
Rather than use my words to describe them, wikipedia has a few already:
"The Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is a hate group headed by Fred Phelps and based in Topeka, Kansas, United States.
The church runs numerous websites such as GodHatesFags.com, GodHatesAmerica.com and others expressing condemnation of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people (LGBT), Roman Catholics, Muslims and Jews, as well as populations it believes are supporting the aforementioned groups, including Swedes, Canadians, Irish, British, Mexicans and Americans.
The organization is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League, and is classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Although well-known in LGBT communities for picketing gay pride events and funerals, the group achieved national notoriety for picketing funeral processions for soldiers killed in action during the Iraq War.
While its members identify themselves as Baptists, the church is an independent church not affiliated with any known Baptist conventions or associations. The church describes itself as following Primitive Baptist and Calvinist principles, though mainstream Primitive Baptists condemn Westboro Baptist Church and Phelps. Its first public service was held on the afternoon of Sunday, November 27, 1955.
The Pasturd Fred Phelps
Here's a link to contact them and leave a message:
WBC Contact Us
Here are some links to their own documents:
Upcoming Picket Schedules: Picketing
Picket Plans for John Roberts: Robert's Picketing
Picket Plans for the Pope: Papal picketing
And the always popular: God Hates Fags
What should be done?
Raven
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Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Let's hope there's a way to stop their sadistic antics at funerals, at least.
Comment by RubySoho
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I've read that a DJ in America was able to convince them to call off the planned picket of a US soldier's funeral by promising them air time. And he delivered. Which meant for one hour Phelps and co were able to spread their poison over the airwaves. And because it worked so swimmingly for them once, they conned him into it again.
Just ignore them. Pity them and ignore them.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Finding a way to legally stop them isn't giving them publicity. It's trying to get a little peace and justice for grieving families at their worst moment.
Do you expect a bereaved family to "just ignore" the picketers at a funeral?
Comment by Morgan Bell
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imagine dedicating your whole life to spreading hate . . . homosexuality as a capital crime? if my eyebrows could raise any higher they would fly off my head . . . i feel sorry for nice normal christians who go privately about their business and would be horrified to offend anyone turning on the news and seeing their religion misrepresented by people who are the devil themselves!
god hates fags?
i think god would hate people using him as an excuse for hatred dont you?
i dont know what should be done . . . i guess we would have to figure out exactly what is making them so angry . . . perhaps some anger management and a short-course on diversity . . . i dont spose picketing a funeral constitutes as trespassing or something so a judge could issue some court-ordered counselling?
just thinking out loud . . .
thanks for the informative post raven
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
That being said, there is a precedent for keeping them away from their attacks on funerals. It is illegal (in the USA at least) to try to talk to women going into abortion clinics. Those who picket in an effort to save lives are forbidden (by law) to be within several feet of women who plan to kill their children. Even on public streets where anyone is supposed to have freedom of speech.
While some cemeteries are public property, graves are privately owned. It seems to me that the same rule should apply to protestors at funerals as to abortion protestors. And the grave itself is privately owned, so the trespassing laws should apply. Apparently they don't, or these slime bags wouldn't continually get away with their assault on decency.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i would like to think everybody has the potential to be rational . . . its the idealist in me the always hopes
i wonder what the demographic breakdown of the members of the group are, like if they are all from a few families . . . or if they attract a certain "type" of person, or are limited to a certain locality?
during the suffrage movement in the early 1900s the feminist protesters were arrested for picketing the white house during a time of war and charged with "obstructing traffic" . . . they were eventually released as it was deemed unconstitutional but they were detained for a really long time
maybe the act of "desecrating a grave" needs to be broadened to include "desecrating a funeral"
once again just thinking out loud . . .
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
It's nice to think the best of people, but what they're doing is just too wrong to excuse. Imagine someone that you love has died and these jerks are parading around the funeral with signs like "He's in Hell", "Faggot", "Whore", "God Hates You" and other lovely sentiments. A grieving family doesn't need that sort of abuse. It can't be excused, either. It must be stopped, legally.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i know their behaviour cant be excused but i wonder if it can be explained in order to treat the problem at the source as well as the hideous symptoms
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by tlcorbin
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~ ~ ~
Hiya Ruby, I am aware of the mindset of those with a martyr complex and that’s likely how they view themselves; they’re bought into the, “ . . . us against the world, “ argument, using their convoluted word of faith as deciphered by their own ego driven leader(s).
I have already made my mindset known to them and my silence would amount to tacit endorsement of their practices. But I certainly won’t draw this out for long.
~ ~ ~
SL, I am sure that they don’t have a right to disrupt the funeral proper; but probably do have the right to assemble in the area and share their message(s).
~ ~ ~
Hello Morgan, they have taken it upon their shoulders to proselytize everyone gentile that doesn’t conform to their way of thinking. They are convinced that they alone have the insiders track.
Thankfully, they aren’t representational of mainstream Christianity, which has its own problems with over zealousness. Shedding light on their current and planned activities may help thwart them.
~ ~ ~
SL, you make some very good points. Research and knowledge are the best tools to use in combating these misguided souls.
~ ~ ~
Morgan, everyone does have the potential to be rational, but lack the proclivity to do so. If there is a “type”, it would be that they are in need of extreme forms of leadership for a sense of identity or self.
~ ~ ~
Right you are SL, but it will take more than our puny voices in the wilderness sounding the alarm.
Wow, I was happily surprised that this post spawned these comments so quickly. Thank you all for exchanging your thoughts, with or without my immediate input. You’re all my hero’s.
Raven
Comment by katyzzz
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I hate it that they bear the name Baptist, all the Baptists I know are really lovely people, given a quirk or two.
These people are horrible and even Scientologists are allowed to express their views so I guess they are entitled and not just because they bear the name Baptist, I think they are vile, but better to express their emotions out loud than go underground, at least people know what they are all about.
Comment by tlcorbin
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Raven
Comment by Damo
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There membership was between 50-80 give or take a little creative book keeping.
80% of membership are direct blood relations of the leader: sons daughters, brothers sisters etc.
The leader is a lawyer by trade and made a name for himself as a civil rights campaigner in the 60s.
It has the structural look of Repressive Cult where:
It is dependent upon a singles leader.
The leaders word is unquestioned.
Common enemies are used as hate figures to unify the group.
Doom and gloom issues are key to the Cults survival.
Fear is also used to control the followers.
I expect this mob to evaporate after the big daddy snuffs it in a few years as do many small cults.
The inflammatory protests and outrageous demand are little more than an exercise in seeking publicity by being as controversial as possible.
In television interviews the reps speak like lawyers because they are qualified lawyers.
Unfortunately they also know that television thrives on sensation and they make good ratings. So if it was not them it would some other ratbag with another ratbag claim getting their head on the news in between junk food ads.
Comment by tlcorbin
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As you correctly pointed out, once the elder passes on into the hell of a permanent news blackout, perhaps the other family members will find gainful employ with NSA and quit competing with panhandlers for the better street corners or convert to pan worshiping theists.
Raven
Comment by RubySoho
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The more stirred up we get, the more they revel in it and when this group of crazies goes the way of the dodo, another will step in to take their place. That's just the lovely world we live in.
Comment by Damo
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Just to reiterate.
I think that they are annoying and absolutely self serving but they only have about 50 members.
With all the other dangerous loud mobs protesting out there these are just a tabloid anomaly.
Pay the little mind and they will eventually have to try other tactic to get the message across.
Comment by tlcorbin
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Raven
Comment by Damo
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Perhaps you should consider that they want to push as many of your emotional button as they can. They need the backlash as evidence of persecution. A lot of cults use that tactic.
Comment by tlcorbin
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Raven
Comment by Mountain Fog
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I might just join on up on their web site....then suggest they folllow "God's Will",
and KILL THEMSELVES!!
I've heard of these low life chromosome deficient psychopaths before, they picketed that poor young boy's funeral, the kid was beaten to death by three other youths, (who met him in a bar and then invited him outside for a smoke of dope), they left him strung up on a fence, and these aresholes turned up to his funeral saying he was now burning in "Hell"!
I know who is gonna be doing the burning, if there is such a place...however, my mother thinks we are already in Hell, which might explain a few things...
cheers...and I wonder how these morons elude racial/sexual discrimination laws?
Oh, maybe that only applies in Oz...?
fog
Comment by tlcorbin
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Great comment and great points.
Oz . . ., heh, heh, heh just the place for these servants of lessor gods.
Raven
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
He meant 'Oz' as in AUZstralia, not Oz the prison. Cos you just cant do that crap here, you really will get arrested. A massive change to our society now means that a large amount of the cops are gay and lesbian and thus, the laws protecting gays are enforced easily and quickly.
50 members? That all? (and as Damo says, I knew they'd all be related) they would be in gaol here.
Shirley Phelps got my blood boiling over Heath Ledger, but I know you cant talk to people like that....I doubt she'd even listen to God.
Comment by tlcorbin
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Yea, for a small group, they are noisy; being the spawn of ambulance chasers explains a lot.
You think that Ms Phelps hears any other voice of god, other than her own?
Raven
Comment by Mountain Fog
Infognito
yes Kleo is right, I sometimes call Australia Oz, because I can't be bothered typing all the letters, even the usual "Aussie" has more letters than I want to type!
But, having said all that, I think "OZ" the gaol would be a suitable start point for these soul dead mental cripples, then "OLE SPARKY" would be on my list of "gaol-house side shows" for them to visit!!
hehe...ahem...ok...calmed down now..was beginning to sound a little like those creeps myself!
cheers
fog
Comment by tlcorbin
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hahahaha, the idea has merit fog.
Raven
Comment by Morgan Bell
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thanks to Damo for the stats on the demographic of WBC, i suspected they all might be related, it helps to understand the motives of the people involved when considering solutions
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by tlcorbin
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A snake in an expensive suit remains a poorly dressed snake.
~ ~ ~
You're correct about pushing for laws, but this is a political season and they're more than willing to pass out fluff in lieu of substance SL until after the elections.
Personally, I'd rather do a class action law suit. Hitting therm in the wallet will shut them up quicker than any laws.
Raven
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by tlcorbin
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FYI - I'll be occasionally posing questions on Bismika Allahuma forum, I'd like to ask them a few questions. It's taken me quite some time to get them to approve my request.
Raven